So My DD Gave Up On Me...

"for Michigan" (formichigan)
06/21/2015 at 00:33 • Filed to: car problems, honda civic, help

This is Steve.

Steve is a 98 Civic EX with a junkyard D16Y5 swapped into the spot where the stock D16Y8 used to sit atop a rebuilt 5-speed manual transmission that was installed two years ago.

Steve’s always been a little rough around the edges because he’s a cheap beater that I bought in a hurry when my old Fiero started showing signs of giving up the ghost. I’ve spent more time and money repairing and replacing things on him than he’s worth.

Tonight, after two months of faithful pizza delivery service, I pulled out of a customer’s driveway and the front end seized up. I was stuck in the middle of the road and couldn’t move. Some nice guys stopped and pushed until things started rolling and we got Steve parked out of the way in a decent neighborhood so I could come back for him after my shift.

Initially impressions told me it was a CV joint in the passenger-side axle, so I thought, “Meh, easy fix. I’ll go spend $50 on a replacement part, crawl under there tomorrow afternoon, put in an hour or two of wrenching, and I’ll be good to go.” So I got a lift from one of the other drivers and finished out my shift in the company Chevy Spark.

But now my shift is over and Steve won’t even turn over for me. I don’t know what’s wrong. He was running just fine after the initial event, but not anymore. That concerns me, because a busted CV joint shouldn’t do that.

Anyone have any ideas? I’m rather stumped and I have no money to replace the darn thing.

DISCUSSION (44)

GUYMANDUDE > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 00:39

I’d start with checking the oil and the plugs.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 00:40

Bent transaxle? Tbh I dont know much about fwd cars, but it sounds like something internal

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 00:41

Check if you need to replace the starter ( NOTE I am a 14 year old high school student whom only has mechanical knowledge from car Mechanic simulator take my advice with a grain of salt)

for Michigan > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/21/2015 at 00:45

Hadn’t thought of that, but it seems glaringly obvious now. Will do.

Seems like an odd coincidence that it’d go out at the same time as the CV joint, though.

for Michigan > GUYMANDUDE
06/21/2015 at 00:50

Are you thinking for debris of somekind or something? I”m not sure how checking the oil would help. If you’re thinking I ran it too low on oil and seized the engine, I know it’s a little low because it burns oil, but I check it regularly (as in I just added half a quart yesterday) and did an oil change in April.

How would the plugs be related to the engine not turning over? That’s completely unrelated.

Big Bubba Ray > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 00:51

Start small. Engines need three things to run. 1. Fuel. Check fuel lines/filter/injectors. 2. Spark. Make sure plug wires and plugs are all super snug. Test the battery as well. Could be something as simple as a jump start. 3. Compression/air. Make sure the engine can breathe.

If none of these things work, renew your Oppo Gold subscription (send payment to macanamera) and we’ll try our best to help you out!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 00:54

Battery issues? Something electrical? Walk us through what happens from the moment you insert the key to attempting to turn it over. Noises? Lights? Anything? Nothing?

for Michigan > Big Bubba Ray
06/21/2015 at 00:55

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t fuel, spark, and compression only matter if the starter is actually turning the engine over? Because that isn’t happening right now.

I do know the dome light/map light turns on and is plenty bright and all of the appropriate dash lights turn on as well, so it seems there’s plenty of energy in the battery as well.

for Michigan > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
06/21/2015 at 00:58

1) Dome light is burned out, so nothing when I open the door.

2) Map light works and is appropriately bright.

3) Key in “Run” position, appropriate dash lights come on, seatbelt chime sounds.

4) Depress clutch and brake pedals, turn key to “Start”, nothing happens. No noises of any kind from the starter or engine.

Big Bubba Ray > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:01

Ah, if the engine isn’t urning over, it could be something else. How many miles are on it? I’d be surprised I’d your engine seized unless there was no oil in it.

Did your starter take a dump?

for Michigan > Big Bubba Ray
06/21/2015 at 01:04

147,830.

It had a rough life before I picked it up six months ago, but I’ve been treating it right since I’ve had it.

That is possible, though it seems odd that it would do so at the exact same time as a CV joint blew out, which I’m still fairly certain is what stopped me in my tracks. I’ll certainly be checking on the starter when I go look at it tomorrow, though.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:08

Make sure the starter is actually receiving the start signal and that the battery actually has more than about 10.5v. You can use a volt meter for both of these, which can be found cheaply just about anywhere. Check for battery voltage at both starter terminals (big and little) while turning the key to the start position.

You can also make sure the engine isn’t seized by putting a ratchet on it and turning it over slowly by hand, it will take a bit of force but if it moves you should be fine there.

Big Bubba Ray > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:13

Damn, well it’s hard to diagnose over the internet haha hopefully it’s something cheap/small like the starter. I can’t imagine a CV joint would totally kill the car. Good luck to ya!

for Michigan > Big Bubba Ray
06/21/2015 at 01:20

Which is why I’m concerned. If it was actually the trans that went, I could see that effecting it starting because the clutch has to be disengaged for the car to start.

Thanks for trying to help, though.

for Michigan > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
06/21/2015 at 01:23

I have access to a volt meter, so the starter and battery are the first things I’m checking tomorrow.

I’m really hoping I can get the thing started and limp it home. Because, as I said in my post, replacing an axle is a piece of cake.

for Michigan > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/21/2015 at 01:25

Well you were the first person to post the only helpful info anyone has given me so far, so you’re doing something right.

E92M3 > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:39

If it was the starter the car wouldn’t have died while driving, it just wouldn’t of started the next time you tried to start it. If the engine seized, the starter would still make some kind of noise. If it was the cv joint, the engine would still start. I would check all the fuses first, and then if they checkout the main relay. Main relay failure is a very common problem on that model year. Google it, and there’s YouTube tutorials on where to find it and how to test it.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:46

AM3R shamefully returns > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 01:48

Might be the starter, I drove my dads ‘07 accord V6 for a brief period and the starter died, and then the replacement died just days later. After replacing that, it's been solid ever since.

for Michigan > E92M3
06/21/2015 at 01:56

Well something went clunk and seized up in the front end before it wouldn’t start. My experience and my knowledge of the car tells me that was the CV joint. Could be wrong, but that’s what I’m gathering from being behind the wheel when it happened and when it was pushed out of the road.

It was still running after it stopped moving. Whatever stopped it didn’t kill the engine. I even tried to get into gear and move the thing out of the road a couple times, but the running engine couldn’t overcome whatever seized. Three full grown men pushing the car did un-seize whatever it was, though. Once it was out of the road I shut it off and it wouldn’t start up again after that. Writing that now, I realize it’s an imporant detail I left out of my post.

But, as you said, the CV joint wouldn’t make it not start, which is why I’m stumped. It’s certainly possible that the main relay or the starter happened to go out at the same time as the CV joint, but it seems unlikely. Still, those seem to be the things to check now.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 02:18

Feel free to reply back again with results if you can’t figure it out, I’ll do my best to help.

diy guy > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 02:31

Neutral safety switch or equivalent sensor for clutch position?

boxrocket > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 02:36

Since it’s a manual it could be something in the transmission and/or between the engine and transmission. I had a similar occurrence when my clutch decided it was done after 130k in my 1989 626. If the starting system can’t tell the clutch is engaged, it won’t enable the starting activities. Have you tried bump-starting or starting it on a short, shallow incline in motion?

Nobi > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 07:37

Does your car have A/C? If so, the compressor could have seized keeping the engine from turning over. Remove the drive belts and see if the engine cranks over. Alternators seize from time to time as well.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 08:07

Could be the ground from the starter. Do the lights in the dash go out or dim when you turn the key? Any noises? If it’s not even attempting to crank then it’s definitely an electrical issue. You have super low miles for a Civic. Mine was at 180k and still going when I sold it.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 08:10

It’s probably completely separate from the cv joint issue. I don’t like to believe in coincidences but it’s certainly possible. I’d treat it as an electrical issue first and go from there. First culprit is always the battery. Even if it’s not dead, it could be your problem. Next would be your starter and then wiring everywhere. Faulty grounds lead to all kinds of crazy shit.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 08:13

Also, when you got stuck did the car stall out? If the car stayed running through all of that I’d imagine it’s definitely a coincidence that it doesn't start now.

Iheartmy365kHonda - Car enthusiasts do like FWD > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 08:48

Possibly an ignition switch? I’ve had mine go out randomly and it wouldn’t even turn the car over unless I held the key in place.

Funktheduck > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 09:09

Try tapping the starter with a hammer while someone tries starting the car.

for Michigan > boxrocket
06/21/2015 at 09:16

That’s what I’m worried it could be. Would a dead clutch freeze the driveline up, though?

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
06/21/2015 at 09:24

The battery is new as of January this year, so it could be a battery problem, but that also seems unlikely.

Startup is absolutely normal except that it makes no noises and doesn’t start. Lights are all at normal brightness.

for Michigan > Nobi
06/21/2015 at 09:27

Not anymore. The system was stripped out by the previous owner, including the compressor.

I would assume if something were seized the starter would still make some sort of noise when the key is turned, which it doesn’t.

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
06/21/2015 at 09:29

It stayed running. I tried to get it into gear and get out of the road a couple times, but whatever seized was too much for the engine to overcome. It only broke loose once the guys who stopped to help pushed hard enough.

for Michigan > diy guy
06/21/2015 at 09:30

There’s a little rubber nub on the back of the clutch pedal that activates the switch that tells the car the clutch is disengaged. It tends to fall off. I’m going to check on it this afternoon.

Nobi > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 10:40

It would click, but that’s all. I’ve seen a few Honda Pilots do that. You’d think the engine was seized up tight, no starter noise, nothing. Removed the drive belt, and it fired right up.

boxrocket > for Michigan
06/21/2015 at 17:08

Unlikely unless the car is in gear and is stuck in gear, e.g. the transmission grabbed reverse, clutch exploded, caused transmission to internally fail, and get debris in the gears causing the seize. Highly unlikely especially as you were only backing out of a driveway, but not impossible, and you’d likely feel it in the shifter. I saw it happen on a Daewoo, but that could have been the cheap factory parts. Could be a combination transmission and CV axle/joint if the transmission seized causing the axle to break or disengage. Many possibilities, just spit-balling here.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/22/2015 at 08:41

Haha I like that you say startup is completely normal except it doesn’t start. Im pretty sure there is nothing normal at all about that! If it is cranking but not starting, I would think fuel/air issues. If it is not even cranking, key turn just makes nothing happen, I would think electrical. Check the grounds for the wiring harness, the starter, the alternator, and any other grounds you can find.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/22/2015 at 08:43

So it wouldn’t go into gear then? Or while in gear, it just wouldn’t move (engine revving fine but car not going anywhere because the wheels are moving).

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
06/22/2015 at 14:43

It would go into gear, but it was like trying to take off with the parking brake on. Every time I started to ease off the clutch pedal it would bog down and nearly stall.

Got it all figured out now, though: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/steve-lives-17…

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/22/2015 at 15:28

Thats great, glad it worked out. I thought your car was black at first. Now I can see that it is green, just like my old civic!

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
06/22/2015 at 23:56

Yeah, the midday sun on all that snow kind of kills the color.

Green is the best color on that generation of Civic (and one of my favorites for cars in general).

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
06/23/2015 at 13:49

I almost went out of my way to find a British racing green Miata when I was car shopping, just because the color was similar. Wayyyy too popular during that time period (late 90s) but now it is always cool and unique-ish to see.

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
06/23/2015 at 13:56

If I ever own a Miata, it’ll one of these two:

Kinja'd!!!

Porsche924GTR > for Michigan
06/23/2015 at 16:11

Kinja'd!!!